Originally Posted by Desidious

Just wondering how one would track an in-game achievement that isn't attached to some kind of number or time and how they would make a track for it. Since it would be a novelty track and not meant for competition then wouldn't it be open for many different things?

The Nintendo 64 Completion bounty comes to mine. Say you want to track the fact that you beat a game.

i think "novelty" is more for silly things, like number of donkey kong wall jumps, or even holding a resuce pomerainina while playing tapper. people may dismiss achieveements as silly, but they can be serious. at least to me, it appears novelty where track is almsot a joke -- but not in the insulting defintion of a joke, more in a fun good way.

Originally Posted by Snowflake

Yes, such a record is really misleading to call a "world record" since it didnt beat anyone, but its also very misleading to call it "other records" since that imples beaten by the record holder. i too would like to see it have its own category.

Something as simple as 'Inaugural Records'.

Excelliron, J.M liked this post

i am alittle surprised innaugrals are being attacked but maxouts arent. maxouts have alot more in common with achievements than innaugrauls do. trying to temper my criticism since i appreciate the effort, and of course you're never gonna have everyone agree on everytring so just putting it out there. innaugrals dont bother me, cause if t heyr're so bad someone can beat them. and if someone ties them then you can treat it as a maxout. i've always felt just seperating "untied world record" from "tied world record" would automatically solve all the other problems.

Scott Hawkins thanked this post

MyOwnWorstEnemy liked this post

Originally Posted by swaggers

Something as simple as 'Inaugural Records'.

if you have multiple people tying the achievement its not an innaugraul but it would still be hit by this (which i agree it should). thers overalp between innaugraul and achievemnt, and i'm not oblivous to the issue the community is upset about that led to this, where for all practical purposes the two are the same, but if the implementaiotn is system wide then innaugraul is pretty different from achievement.

Originally Posted by Snowflake

i think "novelty" is more for silly things, like number of donkey kong wall jumps, or even holding a resuce pomerainina while playing tapper. people may dismiss achieveements as silly, but they can be serious. at least to me, it appears novelty where track is almsot a joke -- but not in the insulting defintion of a joke, more in a fun good way.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word novelty but I do get what you mean. Mine was more focused on achievements that aren't focused on the way tracks have been done here. There are many many in-game achievements that can be track that doesn't involve numbers I believe.

Originally Posted by Desidious

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word novelty but I do get what you mean. Mine was more focused on achievements that aren't focused on the way tracks have been done here. There are many many in-game achievements that can be track that doesn't involve numbers I believe.

yes, true and intellivision dungeons and dragons tracks are the only pass/fails i know about that new tg has long had trouble with and so igave up complaining. it was just "complete the game" -- probably shoud've been a speed run but instead it was a pass/fail completion. TG might want to consider making pass/fail work with this.

sorry for commetning so much everyone, i hope my comments arent just clutter and annoying

Desidious liked this post

Originally Posted by swaggers

Something as simple as 'Inaugural Records'.

I mean I feel like the existence of ESI and separating out the #1 scores from the other scores is what led to all this mess in the first place - people competing not for scores themselves, but competing for most scores and most ESI. Like if TG simply reported "these are the scores logged for x game" with no other additional classifications or metrics, people would focus on obtaining scores rather fucking with the system to boost site specific metrics.

Desidious, Silent Apostle, Scott Hawkins, Fenris thanked this post

Scott Hawkins, HighScorsese, Fenris liked this post

Originally Posted by sdwyer138

I mean I feel like the existence of ESI and separating out the #1 scores from the other scores is what led to all this mess in the first place - people competing not for scores themselves, but competing for most scores and most ESI. Like if TG simply reported "these are the scores logged for x game" with no other additional classifications or metrics, people would focus on obtaining scores rather fucking with the system to boost site specific metrics.

You mean people play games they don't like just to boost some kind of number? Imagine what it would be like if people only played games they enjoyed. 😅

Rogerpoco, MyOwnWorstEnemy, voltronforce0 liked this post

I also want to say that I believe inaugural submission shouldn't cost 3SP. With the changes, you really don't gain anything from submitting an inaugural record and it would only end up being sniped by ESI hunters. What is the incentive anyways? Promoting competition? That's if it gets any.

Don Atreides, Excelliron liked this post

Originally Posted by Desidious

I also want to say that I believe inaugural submission shouldn't cost 3SP. With the changes, you really don't gain anything from submitting an inaugural record and it would only end up being sniped by ESI hunters. What is the incentive anyways? Promoting competition? That's if it gets any.

1: Submit obscenely low inaugural score

2: Score gets easily beat

3: Submit a real score, retake #1 and earn a TG World Record

4: ???

5: Profit

datagod, JJT_Defender thanked this post

Snowflake, Barthax, MyOwnWorstEnemy, JJT_Defender, voltronforce0 liked this post

Originally Posted by sdwyer138

1: Submit obscenely low inaugural score

2: Score gets easily beat

3: Submit a real score, retake #1 and earn a TG World Record

4: ???

5: Profit

The question marks makes me think you didn't think this response through very well. You think the community wouldn't call out that type of sandbagging technique and put them on blast like LAH16? I didn't say inaugurals should be free.

Rogerpoco liked this post

Originally Posted by Desidious

I also want to say that I believe inaugural submission shouldn't cost 3SP. With the changes, you really don't gain anything from submitting an inaugural record and it would only end up being sniped by ESI hunters. What is the incentive anyways? Promoting competition? That's if it gets any.

well if people wanna pretend they arent also just working stats then the motivation is to get the ball rolling, record your own stuff, just plain want people to see your score. i never got the "ooo i have a world record" versus "ooo i got this score, which by the way noone else got". if the score is cool, then tis cool and proven, wr status or not

i hear ya though. if we're gonna be honest the metrics are there casue people like them, i feel like even last place should get something like 1/2 esi, some motivatoin to submit

Desidious, Rickster8, MyOwnWorstEnemy, Scott Hawkins liked this post

Originally Posted by Desidious

The question marks makes me think you didn't think this response through very well. You think the community wouldn't call out that type of sandbagging technique and put them on blast like LAH16?

Its a Southpark reference lol

Rogerpoco, Blackflag82, Scott Hawkins, datagod, Fenris and 1 others liked this post

Originally Posted by sdwyer138

Its a Southpark reference lol

No wonder I didn't get it. I haven't watched that since the early 00s.

Originally Posted by sdwyer138

I mean I feel like the existence of ESI and separating out the #1 scores from the other scores is what led to all this mess in the first place - people competing not for scores themselves, but competing for most scores and most ESI. Like if TG simply reported "these are the scores logged for x game" with no other additional classifications or metrics, people would focus on obtaining scores rather fucking with the system to boost site specific metrics.

Let's say I just focus on the games I really love, like Mario Kart and Excite bike World Rally, I submit scores to those and then what? To me there is almost 0 reason to stick around after submitting for those 2 games, which I did in the first year I joined.

Without the incredibly fun and entertaining goal of climbing the ESI ladder I would have never submitted 3500 scores. And if ESI were removed tomorrow, that same day I would focus only on cyberscore and would never submit again to TG. Sorry if we are focusing on games in a way some of you don't agree.

Rogerpoco thanked this post

Snowflake, Rogerpoco, voltronforce0 liked this post

Originally Posted by Desidious

Imagine what it would be like if people only played games they enjoyed. 😅

The result would be a mediocre site with nothing of interest for most people. People that ONLY play games because they enjoy them never submit good scores. The grind for an impresive score is almost always far from enjoyable, mediocre scores are fun. I have both.

Rogerpoco thanked this post

Desidious, Don Atreides, Rogerpoco, Barthax, Excelliron liked this post

Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola

The result would be a mediocre site with nothing of interest for most people. People that ONLY play games because they enjoy them never submit good scores. The grind for an impresive score is almost always far from enjoyable, mediocre scores are fun. I have both.

I still can't believe I submitted to a baseball game (biggest blowout) myself. I never would have played it for any reason and the game would have just collected dust.

Don Atreides, voltronforce0 liked this post

Originally Posted by Snowflake

if you have multiple people tying the achievement its not an innaugraul but it would still be hit by this (which i agree it should). thers overalp between innaugraul and achievemnt, and i'm not oblivous to the issue the community is upset about that led to this, where for all practical purposes the two are the same, but if the implementaiotn is system wide then innaugraul is pretty different from achievement.

Inaugurals are definitely different from achievements in our eyes, but there is no way to separate them programmatically. For example, for this track:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/super-smash-bros-ultimate/Nintendo-Switch/mob-smash-century-smash-joker-total-enemies-defeated/

Is that just an inaugural or also a maxout? Humans can tell easily, but programs cannot. Once more people submit to the track, a program can determine the proper category. And, if something ever changes ("The real limit is 101 points?!?") everything is adjusted automatically.

It's not perfect of course, but resources are finite.

Excelliron, datagod, voltronforce0 liked this post

Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola

Let's say I just focus on the games I really love, like Mario Kart and Excite bike World Rally, I submit scores to those and then what? To me there is almost 0 reason to stick around after submitting for those 2 games, which I did in the first year I joined.

Without the incredibly fun and entertaining goal of climbing the ESI ladder I would have never submitted 3500 scores. And if ESI were removed tomorrow, that same day I would focus only on cyberscore and would never submit again to TG. Sorry if we are focusing on games in a way some of you don't agree.

I think it's just as cool that we have specialists as we do those that play weird and eclectic games. This place should be a playground for everyone that enjoys the gaming aspect as a whole.

Snowflake, Don Atreides, MyOwnWorstEnemy liked this post

Originally Posted by Don Atreides

Inaugurals are definitely different from achievements in our eyes, but there is no way to separate them programmatically. For example, for this track:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/super-smash-bros-ultimate/Nintendo-Switch/mob-smash-century-smash-joker-total-enemies-defeated/

Is that just an inaugural or also a maxout? Humans can tell easily, but programs cannot. Once more people submit to the track, a program can determine the proper category. And, if something ever changes ("The real limit is 101 points?!?") everything is adjusted automatically.

It's not perfect of course, but resources are finite.

ah i didnt raelize innaugrauls were a way to catch achievements that slip through the crack, i thought this was too sepearte issues simulteanouely handled. all the more so then i stand by checking for tied scores would do more to catch the crack slippers than innaugrauls.

all someone has to do to beat this system then is just have a friend submit as well and bam the achievement slips through the innaugraul checking crack slipper buster. espeicaly when the concen is someone working the system (i refuse to call it abuse since i'm a big believer in hate the game not the player), someone can easily work this check just as well.