Originally Posted by Snowflake

a track that just tracks the records that are fun for others to compete on


world record count is a track

First point: the word compete, to compete would require a form of competition. Competition should have some semblance of a different outcome to determine who is better not just turn on the game and no matter what you do you get the same amount each time (i.e. the Gil tracks LAH16 made)

Second point: world record is just a word that triggers an emotional response. I'm sure it was created from the basic need to acknowledge what is first place on the site and didn't give it much thought beyond that which is where the community comes into play.

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Originally Posted by Desidious

Whatever anyone wants to call me with this situation, I'm fine with. I've stuck my foot in my mouth many times but this isn't one of them.

Haven't we all? :) I do like the check & balance Snowflake & I have: entirely formed organically over the years but, as demonstrated above, tiny shots across the bow (as it were) & we'll often correct steering. ;)

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Originally Posted by Barthax

Haven't we all? :) I do like the check & balance Snowflake & I have: entirely formed organically over the years but, as demonstrated above, tiny shots across the bow (as it were) & we'll often correct steering. ;)

when i joined you were the establsihed authority sort of. you had the knowledge, the time, and the consideration. first impression syndrome/bias effects of that early relationship remain. sure, one point of view is i'd probably argue with you way harder and more offensively if not for that past and so that can undermine the respect if its just a side effect of first impression, but what it really speaks to is the long term effects of how we treet new members

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

i wonder if this can be solved with termnilogy? what if

world record = what it always equaled here
super duper awesome record = what the new defintion of world record wil be

now gratned you need a better name. something that both lets people know what it is but doesnt outright claim to be better. "king of the hill" record, its not enough to be first, you have to knock down anyone who tires to match you. "defended world record" not perfectly semantically accurate since if you got top score first you never really defended it, but blose enough and it makes the point it beats everyone else. i'm sure other people can come up with a better word

the barthax/lah16/and to some degree me side is that people should be allowed to play on tracks they want. well by the same logic noone can complain (without being a hypcorite at least) about a track that just tracks the records that are fun for others to compete on.


world record count is a track, its just the the rules of the track are about which other tracks to pull from. ooo made a lot of good points that i wanted to click like but i disagree with his main content and conclusion i just loved some of the points building to it. changing the rules for wr count is in fact changing rules on a preexisting track. if anyone doesnt like the wr track they should make a new one ;)

I've been contemplating a wall post where I cite reasons the term "world record" should be dropped from everything officially voiced by TG. It rides the dead coattails of a long-dead version of Guinness; incites conflict though misunderstandings (this entire fiasco which has gone on for more a year(?) or more) and, with this change, is now used objectively falsely by Twin Galaxies. Consider this: the achievement based tracks (as now might be termed in context of this thread) are objectively World Records. These achievements can only be earned with their exact value; cannot be achieved under or over so are the one and only record of the achievement which is possible in the world (barring glitch or hacked versions and other exceptions - it's TG, there's always exceptions - which would equate to a base-line rejection for the merits of the achievement). TG does not recognise such a World Record now and all other World Records are more fallible in true evaluation, so drop the phrase because it is entirely inappropriately used - whether there's a "TG" prefix to it or not.

The replacement wording would need to promote (be positive) - "chart topper" is my feeble example but "king of the hill" is equally welcome as an example. It would need to be free of expectations through outside influence in the world of video gaming (World Record is so bogged down in non-TG expectations). There could be additional qualifiers on it like "Unquestioned Chart Topper" [Edit: caught myself doing the negative thing - avoid "un"] for someone that has the top score above others & without sharing it ("Platinum" equivalent on sites like Cyberscore and VGR).

Yeah, it would have taken a lot more fleshing out as an idea for a wall post... Feels like a good start to voice it here.

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Originally Posted by Barthax

Haven't we all? :) I do like the check & balance Snowflake & I have: entirely formed organically over the years but, as demonstrated above, tiny shots across the bow (as it were) & we'll often correct steering. ;)

I would like to think we've done well over the years as well. I know I'm way more emotional than logical which is why it's hard to comprehend me being so level headed here. I enjoy the fact that we can have spats but if we have any questions about the site we are happy to help.

I know this one thing especially, you and I both want the site to be better and do better.. and honestly that's enough for me to know not to be so damn hot-headed here. I haven't been with a group that focuses on drama in a long time and I really should do my best to be better and think before I act.

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@TWIN GALAXIES

@Jace Hall

So inaugural TG wr's and games that have only 1 score/ time etc will be separated, into other TG records.

Until someone else submits to the track.

But will not count towards overall TG wr's on the community rankings, am I correct?

Thank you

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Originally Posted by JJT_Defender

@TWIN GALAXIES

@Jace Hall

So inaugural TG wr's and games that have only 1 score/ time etc will be separated, into other TG records.

Until someone else submits to the track.

But will not count towards overall TG wr's on the community rankings, am I correct?

no. while you're correct that is what the intila post said, jace's most recent post his clarified they will be their own thing, neither world record nor other re cord, simply "innaugral record". i mean all your ponts about it not being a tg wr are true, just the point about it being an "other record" is no longer true.

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Originally Posted by Barthax

Consider this: the achievement based tracks ... are objectively World Records. These achievements can only be earned with their exact value;

They objectively are NOT. World Records require competition. These tracks only permit participation. It is literally impossible to compete if only one score is possible.

Do you own a hat? Then you and I are co-World Record holders of "Owns Hat". Please provide your mailing address for trophy delivery.

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Originally Posted by Don Atreides

They objectively are NOT. World Records require competition. These tracks only permit participation. It is literally impossible to compete if only one score is possible.

Do you own a hat? Then you and I are co-World Record holders of "Owns Hat". Please provide your mailing address for trophy delivery.

There you go with your TG hat on but I purposely phrase World Record not TG World Record. That makes your second paragraph correct but nobody mentioned a trophy was required. ;)

fine, lets have this disucssion again
what is a world record?
best in the world? nope. we have no idea whats best in the world
best recorded in the world? again nope, we have no idea what may or may not be recorded somewhere
it can only mean best recorded by a specific organization hence a twin galaxies world record is a thing
some people seem to think "world record" can be determine as highest in the world based on going through all respected sites, but thats VERY subjective and even in some ways objectively wrong. how do you determine which sites and records are real? you really gonna go through all of them case by case? even if you do what about some small site you dont know about?

people arguing a world record is some ubiquitous thing really demostrate their lack of understanding. HOWEVER i wil ladmit if enough people use a word wrong then ti becomes the new definiton and therefore right. as a result the standard meaning of world recod, well, has no meaning and is crazy subjective

a maxout however is truly the highest score in the world, we know no matter how respected no matter how secret, no one anymore beat the max. so i do agree is "objectively" a world record. I also agree its as odds with how much peole use the term.

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Originally Posted by Barthax

There you go with your TG hat on but I purposely phrase World Record not TG World Record.

As the co-World Record holder in "Owns Hat" I own many hats including a TG hat. I named it "A Million Dollars" and, when people ask me if I have a million dollars, I say yes. I find that diluting the meaning of words, makes me feel better about my situation in life. Some people say that I'm coping by living in a fantasy world, but I just think they're jealous of my "Owns Hat World Champion of the Universe" title.

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Originally Posted by Don Atreides

As the co-World Record holder in "Owns Hat" I own many hats including a TG hat. I named it "A Million Dollars" and, when people ask me if I have a million dollars, I say yes. I find that diluting the meaning of words, makes me feel better about my situation in life. Some people say that I'm coping by living in a fantasy world, but I just think they're jealous of my "Owns Hat World Champion of the Universe" title.

honestly great analogy. i would simultaneously agree with such a person making the claim in the most literal pedantic sense but also really roll my eyes at them and decide we need a new system overhaul to deal with this.

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i'm going to need yall to leave hats out of this discussion.

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Originally Posted by sdwyer138

i'm going to need yall to leave hats out of this discussion.

if i can roll with the new (not so new anymore) defintion of snowflake, you can role with hats.

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Originally Posted by Desidious

Second point: world record is just a word that triggers an emotional response. I'm sure it was created from the basic need to acknowledge what is first place on the site and didn't give it much thought beyond that which is where the community comes into play.

To me i considered scores here a WR back when i joined due to the KoK and what was portrayed there and the Guinness WR connection TG once had. I ended up in the GWR book which further cemented my belief of "true" WR's being here.

But now, years down the line, hindsight and Guinness gone I agree with @Barthax the term 'World Record' even with 'TG' designation should be dropped. It would actually make a lot more sense with this proposal of 1 submission tracks if World Record wasn't mentioned. Even a TG world record sounds stupid really its a World Record, within Twin Galaxies, so not a World Record...? Just drop the WR bit imo. Call it a TG high score or whatever.

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The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

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Originally Posted by Silent Apostle

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

thats why i'm bad intentions all the way baby! straight to heaven for me!

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

fine, lets have this disucssion again
what is a world record?...

I think I disagree. I believe there is a place for the term 'World Record' but it goes unsaid that it's always with the caveat of 'to the best of my/public knowledge' as OK so maybe there's a guy who recorded a 1.4 million DK score in his basement and just doesnt show anyone, ever, however unlikely that scenario is...so I dont count things like that and that kind of speculation serves no purpose other than for "what if'" discussions like this. For the majority of records here, they are 'TG records'......but many of the arcade records here (and a number of individual others from different consoles) actually ARE the World Record, and not just because TG says so, but because everyone in the community agrees thats the WR. The DK WR and many others are tracked across multiple websites and have been stated as such by a number of different types of organizations and are agreed upon and recognized as a WR outside of people in TG. Using a place like TG or SpeedRun or wherever is sometimes just the avenue for gaining that placeholder or recognition as WR holder.

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Originally Posted by Excelliron

I think I disagree. I believe there is a place for the term 'World Record' but it goes unsaid that it's always with the caveat of 'to the best of my/public knowledge' as OK so maybe there's a guy who recorded a 1.4 million DK score in his basement and just doesnt show anyone, ever, however unlikely that scenario is...so I dont count things like that and that kind of speculation serves no purpose other than for "what if'" discussions like this. For the majority of records here, they are 'TG records'......but many of the arcade records here (and a number of individual others from different consoles) actually ARE the World Record, and not just because TG says so, but because everyone in the community agrees thats the WR. The DK WR and many others are tracked across multiple websites and have been stated as such by a number of different types of organizations and are agreed upon and recognized as a WR outside of people in TG. Using a place like TG or SpeedRun or wherever is sometimes just the avenue for gaining that placeholder or recognition as WR holder.

its interesting you list donkey kong as an examp;le all agree on, yet TG and DKF cant agree if robbie lakeman's world record is the "real" record or not. so even a title like that, no, theres absoultley no agreement

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Originally Posted by Snowflake

its interesting you list donkey kong as an examp;le all agree on, yet TG and DKF cant agree if robbie lakeman's world record is the "real" record or not. so even a title like that, no, theres absoultley no agreement

Thats like the exception, not the rule, dude.

And i'd say thats one community (dkf) who disagrees that Robbie has it, but even at worst its a dispute between two people, not dozens or hundreds, so its still communal agreement.

Another thing unrelated to Robbie but still on this issue which I forgot to mention in my first comment, submitting criteria and being able to prove a performance is just important and as much a part of the record as the performance itself, which also IMO disqualifies the "dude in his basement" or "back in the 80's" type scenarios..